I have a significant portion of my retirement assets in my company’s 401(k) that is self-directed. So I can buy ETFs or closed-end funds etc. What is everyone’s recommendation for how to invest in silver if in this instance physical is not an option? PSLV, SIVR, CEF? Silver miners?
Thanks!
Jeffrey
My self directed 401K plan lets me invest in bullion and certain coins like Eagles, Maples and others
Also, real estate, tax liens, stocks, etc
I have a post on the brother john forum describing the whole thing
The post is is in the Financial News board in case the link below does not work
http://www.brotherjohnf.com/forum/Thread-A-way-out-of-your-regular-IRA-401K-plan
Your question is music to my ears Yes, you can by silver ETF if you trust paper. You can also self direct to a bullion bank who will invest in American silver and gold eagles if you trust the bullion banks. You can invest in PSVL, Eric Sprotts fund that is the most likely to be honest while still in paper. You can do a Self Directed IRA like I did and buy the bullion through an LLC you set up, thus enabling yourself to store your phyzz in a secure location. I chose a separate safe in my home to store silver and gold that represented my SDIRA investment. It is tricky and you have to follow strict rules but thus far no black helicopters have invaded my home.
Awesome. Although preferably you should acquire physical silver rather than stuff like ETFs.
I rolled over a SEP retirement account into my self directed 401K
My self directed 401K lets me store my Silver and Gold Coins, Eagles, Maples, Philharmonic, and other approved coins, anywhere I like.
You can have them in your home in a safe or buried in your back yard if you want to do that.
If I buy Bullion, it has to be purchased and then stored at an approved facility.
I took 250K from my old SEP account and purchased 175K in Coins and put 75k into Gold and Silver mining stocks
I did all this in May 2012 when everything was pretty much at the bottom.
Thanks for the responses! The 401(k) is held by Schwab so I can only purchase products that are listed on the exchanges. With that caveat, would everyone recommend PSLV over any other ETFS?
PSLV is Erik Sprotts Silver ETF and according to those in the know, including Harvery Organ say that PSLV is the real deal and the silver is in the vaults. Organ says GLD and SLV are empty
Just joined, so answering sorta late …
I inherited an IRA from Dad. I switched IRA custodians to one that provides a self-directed IRA with a relationship to Bullion Vault. These assets are now invested in BV silver bullion. The neat thing about such a plan is that I can (and I do!) trade silver bullion at BV, and the gains are not taxed at the colletibles rate. In fact, they’re not taxed at all, which makes a big difference in compounding gains. The tax I pay is the ordinary income tax rate when I make a withdrawal. At present, I’m only taking the minimum withdrawal each year, and my gains are very much in more than this amount, so the net value of the IRA is increasing.
Since mine is a beneficiary IRA, I cannot add money to it. I wish I had known about these things before I passed retirement age [sigh].
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This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by
Fr. Bill.
This is exactly what I am encouraging my friends to do, but on a buy-and-hold basis. Both BullionVault and GoldMoney offer a similar service, I think there are two main differences. One is the trading arrangement - Bullion Vault is a closed system, you only trade with other BullionVault customers – whereas GoldMoney trades on the open market. The other difference is the fee structure. If I recall correctly, BullionVault has one fee to buy and another to sell. GoldMoney charges a fee to buy but there is no fee to sell. I have holdings in both, but I don’t check in often.
The thing that worries me about trading is the spread, and the fees measured in ounces. I suppose it depends how often you’re going to trade.
Fr Bill I can understand wanting to hold your IRA with BV. It’s a good solution to the idea of having physical metals without holding them personally. My preference was to take possession in my home including an SDIRA.
A couple of thoughts come to mind. Can you break the IRA and take 100% out? If so, what would be the tax hit? Is BV a well trusted storage facility? Would it be better to break your IRA into smaller pieces and allocate them to difference vaulting services. Just curious on this matter. I’ve not done any atudy on this matter.
@AGXIIK I researched them both carefully, and I have no qualms over the integrity of Paul Tustain (BullionVault) or James Turk (GoldMoney). I like their business models. Hence I got holdings with both.
I still don’t fancy trading though.
@AGXIIK:
Like Tawnyard, I am satisfied with the integrity of BV and GoldMoney. There are IRA custodians who work with both of them, so having an IRA that can own/trade bullion in either company is quite doable.
As to vaults, VIAMAT is more or less a standard in private vaulting. I’m surprised you’re able to hold your IRA bullion in your own hands. It was my understanding (maybe mistake, I suppose) that assets had to be held by third-parties (i.e. banks, vaults, who were approved for such things) according to IRS rules. At any rate, the safety of Viamat vaults is way more than what I can provide for myself out here in the sticks. When things get to where my security capabilities are preferable … well, things are gonna be Really Bad at that point!
As to trading … well, two things make it very appealing within a tax-sheltered vehicles such as an IRA: (1) the volatility of silver gives you lots of dips to buy and lots of peaks to sell. I never try to “time” the market, of course; that’s a fool’s errand. So, I’m always selling before the tops and buying before the bottoms. But still … with the swings one finds in silver, I still end up ahead.
And (2) as Turd Ferguson observed many times, the manipulation in the PM markets is very helpful for a gnat-sized trader such as I am. The method in their madness is not all THAT difficult to discern. PM commentators we all know and love comment on it constsantly. It’s not difficult at all to be poised to jump in and out of the market movements. Or (as I like to think of it) to hop like a flea from one market elephant to another.
Besides, I don’t trade with the entirety of my assets in BV; only with 15 to 20 percent of it, using the gains to add to the more or less dormant stack I warehouse there.
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This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Fr. Bill.
@Tawnyard:
One is the trading arrangement - Bullion Vault is a closed system, you only trade with other BullionVault customers – whereas GoldMoney trades on the open market.
True, but for my purposes it’s not that much difference. Indeed, I’ve often found BV’s closed market to be an advantage insofar as it seems to put a brake on the price movements. If, for example, I see the spot market move upward suddenly (or down suddenly), and it’s a movement I want to take advantage of, I can usually do so at BV because the prices in that closed market are usually five to ten minutes later.
The other difference is the fee structure. If I recall correctly, BullionVault has one fee to buy and another to sell. GoldMoney charges a fee to buy but there is no fee to sell.
BV just changed its fee structure, but not by much. Yes, there is a fee for buying or selling, but as far as I can tell it’s the same percentage. When I was comparing BV and GoldMoney a couple of years ago, I missed the fact that at GM there is no fee for selling. I’ll have to go back and revisit the overall fee structures of BV and GM to see if it’s worth moving my non-IRA BV holdings. When I did the numbers before, BV looked a tad less expensive. Plus, I liked the fact that BV and the vaults availab le to me were outside USA jurisdiction.
The thing that worries me about trading is the spread, and the fees measured in ounces. I suppose it depends how often you’re going to trade.
I trade pretty often — at least two or three times a month. A spreadsheet helps me know that a trade is always to my advantage, including the fees involved!
The biggest irritatant for me at BV was the fact that prices were always quoted in dollars per kilogram. After I’d been with them for a while, the modified their interface to display prices in $/ozt. Still the final trades are calculated and reported to you in $/kg. But, by now I’ve gotten used to the different metrics. And, again, spreadsheets are our friends for such things.
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This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by Fr. Bill.
Fr bill Re the issue of holding PMs in an SDIRA, Doc and I discussed this issue. I took a narrow view of the wording and to me it indicated that I could hold it in a separate safe in my home. It is a gray area interpretation but I read it as allowing this for my account.
In the case of a service provideer of an SDIRA, it might be too great a risk to make the case that one could hold their PM SDIRA at home, with a more likely insistence that it be held at a bank Safe Deposit Box. I am not that trusting so I chose the gray area and hold it at home. If challenged by the iRS I could shift the PM to a SDB at my local bank since it is already set up just in case I keep some minor valuables in there just for show but nothing that I would worry about if it was lost. I dont recommend this for everyone but thinking along the line that I take responsibility for these actions, I can afford the hit if it happened and still retain the phyzz So in a way its a win win situation Thank you the data on BV and other system I have also heard that VIAMAT is a good way yo get your PMs out of dodge in short notice.
I just occurred to me that the administrators and trustees of retirement plans are more than just the sum of their parts, rules and regulations. Those usually mean an effective CYA while the people running these plans are raking in fees and backdoor income. There is the other factor and that is the very real threat of the government expropriating part or all of these funds. If the trustees and legal counsel know of this looming threat and it would be nearly impossible for them to not know this, they may be front running the take overs by making it very difficult to withdraw funds. They resort to legal threats and obfuscation to push back on account holders who want to take possession and control of their retirement funds. Imagine if the gummint comes to them after providing ample warning of these takings and asks them the hard question; like—why didn’t you control your accounts better. We warning you to make sure you kept the money for us. There could be some sort of unwritten fiduciary duty on the part of the trustees to provide safe keeping duties for the government and their take over plans. I now will get my tin foi hat cleaned and blocked.
Has anyone heard of this company or had any dealings with them. I would like to move our IRA so that we can take possession of physical gold/silver. Does anyone also know if we can move our IRA with an employer without ending our employment with them? My wife will be retiring in 4 years and I know we can access it then. Thanks.
http://www.checkbookira.com/
Silver Stacker. I used The Dollar Vigilante’s Seld Directed IRA system and it worked. It was more expensive that CheckbookIRA and I haven’t heard of them, not that it means anything. I did research PassportIRA and one other but they did not get on the stick in a timely manner
It looks like this business has the dots connected by setting up the IRA custodian. I use Suntrust in New Mexico FYI. They put together the LLC with Company Corporation. My LLC domicile is in my home state Nevada. The registration of my LLS, one for me and 1 for my wife, have an annual fee as does the IRA custodian. They are most costly that the firm you noted so if checkbookira can do the deal with a cost savings that seems to be a good route. One thing that troubles me is the finger pointing That makes me a bit nervous. I would do some deep checking through the State AG and BBB to make sure there is nothing untoward with this firm.
If you are uncomforable with CBIRA check out The Dollar Vigilante system called the SDIRA.
AGXIIK 2 months ago.
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