We present AGXIIK’s thoughts on the hiding of your precious metals with one caveat: The Doc does not recommend storing your PM’s in a safety deposit box, as he believes that if the government ever were to conduct a gold/silver confiscation, PM’s in safety deposit boxes will be confiscated, PM’s held in your own possession under your own roof will not. We encourage all SD readers to chime in on this issue and share their thoughts on the best place to safely store your precious metals.
From AGXIIK:
Where Should I Hide My Precious Metals?
Hiding PM’s is a tough decisions and there is no one perfect answer.
I personally believe having your metals at your home is the best idea. A fire rated safe can contain a huge amount of physical metal Use a dial type safe, not electronic. The E type can be hacked. In case of fire, E types are hard to open.
Mount it on a cement or very solid floor since it can weigh 1,000 lbs. Memorize the safe number.
Make sure you have a copy of the safe number with a trusted attorney with a large reputable law firm. Don’t discuss the existence of this safe. If you can, keep it in a store room or closet. Thrown a blanket over it to keep prying eyes off the safe
Safe deposit boxes are a close second. Try to get the safe in your spouse’s name if you have potential liability. Husbands are usually sued. Wives are usually not. Use a strong solid local bank. Check Weiss reports to see if this bank is rated AA or better. A large deposit box can hold 2,000 or more PM coins or rounds. If you are heavy in metals then rent two smaller ones.
This stuff weighs a bunch
A high quality new or used air tight 50 cal ammo can, something that be bought on line or in a military surplus store can be had for $20 or less. In tubes containing 20 coins, these cans can hold 36 ballistic tubes That’s 720 coins–a bunch in any language. Ammo cans can be air and water proof. They are totally portable but filled with PMs they will weigh in at about 50 lbs.
That means if you have to move quickly, bug out etc, your PM wealth is easy to tuck in the back of your car or truck. Present value of a silver ammo can—$21,000. Present value of gold ammo can—$1,152,000. Damn that sounds sweet!!! A million Box.
These cans, and their related plastic cans that are air and water proof, are easy to bury for quick security or retrieval Make sure you use OPSEC but also be sure you have a trusted associate, attorney et al, who has a page with the Geo Casching, GPS, or ‘treasure map’ where these are buried
I will say with 100% confidence that I would trust my attorney with any of these details They are in a sealed envelope. My wife is totally on board with this too.
For long term high security storage, you can put a very large amount of PM in air and water tight MONOTUBES. These can be buried or even storage under water. They will weigh 200 lbs or more so be certain you can handle this weight. This is not a time to call your buddies to help bury your goodies. Junk bullion works great in Mono tubes and ammo cans too
If you have access to a public storage site, you could store one or more containers with metals in a small cheap storage room with a first rate, pick proof, ultra strong lock.
Then cover the valuables with some junky stuff Keep the valuables in a small fire proof safe then put boxes and old crap like a mattress, junky furniture and maybe a rusty bike to make sure that anyone who might access your storage room thinks nothing of value is here.
Of course, let your legal counsel have the location of this in case you are not around.
You can spread your risky in a small scale or large depending of what you want to protect. Do not put all your eggs in one basket.
I know that some readers have 5-20,000 ounces of silver considering the video shown last week or so about the guy who just bought 3,000 ounces of silver porn. That is 200 lbs of silver, a goodly bit of weight.
OPSEC is vital.
My family and I are stackers and have used, are using or will use these systems to protect our valuables
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For bank safety deposit boxes, the worry is not just “gold confiscation”. The problem is if the bank (and or state) takes your items and sells it to cover their liquidity/funding needs.
And you can get it back!… well if you do, it would be cash equivalent at god knows what price.
“Not-So-Safe-Deposit Boxes: States Seize Citizens’ Property to Balance Their Budgets”
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4832471&page=1
“BoA Drills Safe Deposit Box and removes heirlooms.mp4″
The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.
- Video of a family who lost their items and were promised their jewelery back – video says they haven’t received.
I trust James Turk and GoldMoney to store my some of my metals. I think the international diversification GM offers is worth the small annual cost (GM has vaults in Canada/London/Switzerland/Hongkong). I also know that if I ever want to get out of dodge, I can have access to my metals stored at GM without having to lug them around.
Contrary to most readers of this site I definitely do not think keeping all/most of your metals on your property/country is prudent.
First, I applaud AGXIIK! I enjoy his writings, and learn somthing each time. Regarding the storage of your PMs. First and foremost, have them in YOUR possession, PERIOD! NO, repeat NO second-hand method of storage will do. Since we are talking about stackers (that have a significant stash of silver/gold) then a safe that is commensurate (in value/weight) withyour stash value should be purchased. A rule of thumb on expenditure for purchasing security is between 5-10% of the stash value. Bolt the safe to the floor! DON’T WRITE/GIVE THE COMBINATION to anyone! If you can’t remember the combination, sell your silver/gold and go to a fu*king nursing home! (Sorry, it just pisses me off). If a safe isn’t feasible (?????) Bury it on your property. You can use AGXIIK’s method of ammo cans. If you have a fish pond, PVC pipe is a really great item (screw down ends to keep PMs nice and comfy) and throw them in.
Placing your PMs in a public storage unit is only for those folks who spend their time sitting in their living room, with drool coming out of the corner of their mouth! JUST PLAIN STUPID!
I saved the best for last: Safety deposit boxes. Here’s what you put in those things: The pictures of your other wife and kids. Otherwise, leave that government candy store EMPTY!
Ah, I feel so much better now….
The most elaborate method I have heard of is someone who buries it then floods that area by damming a small pond on their property, thus submerging the stash. Just so happens he was the one who turned me on to silver doctors! Burying is dangerous because if anyone knows you have a stash somewhere on your property, they can easily locate it with a metal detector. That’s what was cool about the pond, harder to detect metal under water and then just open the dam to access it, then flood it once again….brilliant! Sounds like a lot of work but compared to trying to get your money out of the bank after bank holidays and limited withdrawals….it sounds a lot easier than that.
I don’t know where you live, but me, I live where if someone would come on my property–and with a metal detector, no less–I would ponder what should I do? Should I just shoot the tresspasser first, or turn the English Mastiffs on him, then shoot what’s left. In any case, the PMs are safe!!!
Easily found with a metal detector ? Hahahaaaaaa…….I’ve spent years looking for a former bootlegger’s stash that used to live on my property…..he was known for burying mason jars of silver dollars. Spreading out in a careful grid pattern from his former cabin, I have yet to find the first jar. I might luck up on some in another few years. I’d hate to tell you how long it takes to find something buried if it’s buried with just the slightest amount of ingenuity.
@Just Observing.
Please do elaborate? What ways are there to make a stash hard to detect from above?
Would a steel tapered lid on a tube (pencil shape) work in a stealth kind of way? No surface would reflect up.
I prefer to use several spots around the house. A safe is the obvious place so if a serious thief with a weapon demanded your precious metals then it is like open sesame to Alladin’s cave. Turn 100 oz bars into doorstops – cover them in foam and material (not too nice or someone might knick your doorstops!). Put them in furniture – ie sofas and pianos. Some under the floor, some in the ceiling. Cut out pages of a book (these days you can buy books cheap – buy something no-one would read) and have it up high in your book case. Fire would be the only problem but wouldn’t the silver just melt and you could still retrieve it and sell it to a refiner?
You imply that you don’t own a gun. If someone can enter your home with a gun and overwhelm you, then I submit your PMs are NOT your first concern. You need to run, not walk, to the nearest gun store. Get a gun, take it to the pistol/rifle range, learn all about it until it is second nature to you, THEN you won’t be having someone entering your castle to disrupt your day…and you’ll feel good about yourself that you can protect your loved ones and your PMs too.
Can’t do that in Australia silverrrr! We have strict gun laws. Anyway what if someone gets to you before you get your gun?
Some countries have strict gun laws, and doing fine with that.
For a robbery/confiscation type of situation, there is the option to have a safe in a satisfactory location (like a sink cabinet, under a large bucket, where the robbers would find some silver and (plated) gold, plus some bank fresh cash notes. Making it seems like a proper stash of a humble stacker. The majority would not be hidden here, as it’s hardly hidden at all.
If I had an owned/mortgaged property, I think I would bury metals (non-precious) everywhere, like a random grid. A fine grid. Just to render the detectors useless. You just gotta know which signal to dig under. Also, having a very metallic house interior might prove benificial. Steel table legs, bolted to the wall. Or the door handle, imagine how many gold coins would fit behind it? You need to really tear a house down to find that. And yet a simple philips accesses and re-mounts it within a minute, no power tools or noise. Then there are thesholds, and plints. Heater radiators, how tape to just glue something in there? Heat resistance tape and packaging of course.
If you get creative, there’s the roof. Lots of timber that can be hand-drilled. heck, if you have some overhead wooden bars, the tops can have holes in them that fit bars with covering sheet wood, painted the same color. Close to metal bolts of course.
Then, there is fitness equipment. I think one item could hold many millions of gold. And it may actually remain as stable as it was.
I have a big ole gun safe. Only thing I keep in it are papers. ( tax, mortgage, car titles, etc )…..because I agree with BSS…..someone catches you with your pants down, holds a gun to your head ( or wife/kids ), and you will open that safe. So I make it easy for ‘em ( and me )…..the combination is taped to the front door.
My guns I keep loaded and out where I can access them ( no young kids here ). My metals/etc, other places……many in plain sight, but not what you would recognize.
Thanks AGXIIK, very useful info.
Anywhere but a bank!
Remember the old saying….
‘The best way to rob a bank… is to own one!”
I am with stupid ^
Soon I’ll be launching a new free service in which we’ll evaluate the effectiveness of your PM hiding spot. Simply send us the exact location and valuation of all the PM’s on your property and we’ll send you back a free report on how secure they are
I’m already in that business. If anyone needs an onsite evaluation, I can bring a team of heavily armed thugs to your door and they’ll make sure your metal is so safe that even you won’t be able to get at it while they carefully inspect the location. The inspection is thorough. We carefully remove every bar and round to make sure the foundation or whatever you store the PMs in is secure. Its a free service to you. We even offer a money back guarantee!
I’m always amazed by the people willing to take the RISK OF STORING METALS at someone else’s vault. I really don’t care who you are or who your storing it with. Who do you think everyone contracts with (and I’m referring to the companies behind these allocated storage schemes) at the end of the day to carryout their business…..THE BIG BANKS! You’d be much better off in saving the few % storage costs and purchase precious metal insurance at your house. Doing so, you will be insured and have it in your physical possession. For me….i’ll just stick with my big guns…BRING IT!
Silvrrr: Although I am licensed and carry every waking minute every day, if 3 guys come to my door with weapons already drawn mine is not going to do any good so the best way is to diversify and hide in multiple places as suggested by BS silver.
Obviously your “front door” is much more vulnerable than mine. I too have conceal carry and do so daily. I assumed (wrongly) that one’s front door is not accessible without awareness of the occupant, particuarly should the “visitor” be brandishing a gun. In my case, an bad guy is going to be intercepted well prior to arriving at my front door. Either by a bullet or 460 pounds of two English Mastiffs…if brandishing a weapon.
The crux of the matter is that security starts with protecting the occupants of the home, and taking secondary action to extend appropriate security to, in this case, your PMs.
Apparently many of the posters here live outside the USA. Unfortunately, the laws are more problomatic and far different than the USA where the innocent are protected, not made ripe for plucking. However, unfortunately, the innocent are at the mercy of gun-toting bastards because law-abiding citizens like posters here DO NOT THINK like the bad guys. Most people can’t bring themselves to take proactive stance regarding their safety. Its a shame, and the bad guys thrive on that!
C6 – you carry a gun all the time?! You must live on the edge. Hope you drink herbal tea or something to balance out all that stress rofl.
Consider a decoy safe. Mine is microwave sized and is lightly bolted down. I have it only slightly hidden so it would be found by a burgler. It could be easily pried loose and hauled away.
Safe deposit boxes are a big no-no. Absolutely no way does it make sense to store anything with the banking system. Hell, I don’t trust them with more than a few $k in fiat to make bill paying easier, why would I trust them to store my precious metals? That thin metal plate on a safe deposit box doesn’t improve my trust enough to think whats inside if will remain accessible to me upon demand without some government or banking thug beating me over the head with some penalty or tax.
AGXIIK, you live in Nevada. There is one hell of a lot of land that is easily accessible to stash your stuff. I don’t recommend storing them in any abandoned mines due to the cave in risks and the number of people who tend to “explore” old mines, but I would recommend an accessible place off some dirt road on BLM land.
Turn off your cell phone and any radio transmitters (OnStar?). Go out into the desert, national forest, or some dirt road on BLM land that has multiple access routes. Find a good couple landmarks, make sure you’re familiar with the spot. So familiar that you can find it down to the centimeter resolution of exactly where you bury your stash. Have at least two or three ways to identify the spot. Remember: trees can die, boulders can be moved, etc. Ensure the spot is unlikely to be “developed” by commercial industry for many decades to come. Dig a hole. Bury it. If you have a handheld GPS unit, turn it on and write down the coordinates. Clear the GPS unit’s memory.
If you can memorize the coordinates, do so. If you can’t, then find a safe place to hide the coordinates. Remember, you don’t have to write them in standard GPS form. You can translate or obscure them with some simple mental hackery.
Nobody will find your shit for millions of years unless you want it to be found.
I recommend storing a portion at home for ease of access. Anything more than a few thousand ounces and you’re probably making a mistake.
Would a safe, wallpapered over with a fragile looking painting-in-frame in front of it serve well as a decoy safe?
It might be fun to stuff the safe with all kind of birth certificates, insurance cards, fake family photo album, moisture eaters, and just the amount of silver that will fit next to it.
XC Skater – you’ve been watching too many movies
The tubes Silver rounds come in have (as im sure you all know) edges that are just the right size for a length of tie wire to pass through. Drill or cut out the TOP of a hollow core door. On the lowest level of your home. Pass the wire through the edge of coin tube, knot it, and keep loading tubes on the wire. I have successfully hung 10 tubes on a single wire. Attatch a small screw to the top of the door, without fully seating the screw. Wrap you loaded wire around the screw, then seat it into wood. Repeat as nessessary.
take a large flower pot etc.put the silver in and fill it with road salt
A time safe might help if thugs hold a gun to your head and a dick to your wife’s ass and demand the combination. Though in that case, your problems are bigger than a lost stash.
Think you can trust a lawyer with simple GPS coordinates? Really? And what about EMP? Here are a few things to think about. Each has its flaws but you can use combinations. Be creative:
On your boating expedition, take photos at 90 degree angles to each other, each with prominent landmarks beyond the shore. Various trees, etc. will only line up perfectly when you are over the right spot. You will always be able to figure out which direction gets you closer to the spot. No GPS required. Keep the photos with thousands of other vacation photos. Arrange for your family to find out which photos to use if you are dead.
A lot of Jewish families lost their stashes in Switzerland because the Nazis were not kind enough to provide death certificates for purposes of probate. Your lawyer may not be able to legally release your stash info if you disappear into a FEMA black hole.
Turn a topo map into a treasure map. For added protection, you could even get four neighboring topo grids and put an ”X” on each one. Each of these looks like a treasure map but isn’t! When the four maps are properly aligned, the little X’s make a big X which marks the spot. Spread the maps, and copies, among widely separated members of your family, being sure that if any one person dies the others can still reconstruct the location if they cooperate.
You can give one lawyer one set of GPS coordinates, another lawyer gets another set, and the averaged coordinates are the real coordinates.
Or the lawyer gets two numbers- one gives the latitude when multiplied by the square root of your wife’s favorite page in the Kama Sutra, and the other gives the longitude when multiplied by the logarithm of the maximum number of times you used that Kama Sutra position in a single night. Once you chop off the first digit or two, logarithms, roots, and trig functions are a perfect source of digits that have the mathematical properties of randomness without being random. Perfect for encryption. Doesn’t require working computers. In principle, you could do it with a series expansion and pencil and paper.
You can put your main stash in a reinforced compartment under the driveway with a tiny slot for adding new phyz. It will require a day of jackhammering to dig up. Thugs won’t risk alerting the neighbors. They probably wouldn’t even be able to rent a jackhammer. But if you have to bug out and your house ends up on the wrong side of the DMZ, you are SOL.
I really like the idea of a tiny slot to add metal to the stash. It would evan allow to poke around a bit. And, if designed properly, there should be ways only you know will work, to extract part of the metal from the tiny inlet. Like a looped wire in the ceiling of the compartment, only to be reached with a special movable gripper arm. The wide will drag a line of tubes front a double ceiling and towards the feeding hole. A real long term solution though. Moving houses or fleeing the country would be a bit of a pain.
I am thankful not to have to make my home into a fortress, and make myself believe I’ll have downed the robber before they’ve reached my front door. Firstly, I am not always home, adn secondly, I actually do expect guests at times, or have other things on my mind than to be prone on my turntable sniper platform that can oversee the whole perimeter of my property.
There are burglars in this country, but a good scream usually sets them running. They didn’t become robbers because it seemed like a cool way to get action, but because they are sincerely poor, or got hooked to an expensive narcotic. Scary, but not something you’d have to arm yourself against with more than a baseball bet (which would look really out of place in any home here BTW).
Some people who are paranoid just get a barky dog. 0.001% of those people ever get burgled. Paranoia seems to be the best burglar repellent.
Just a few motion-sensitive flood lights around the house, and a few silent and loud alarm switches through the house should do the trick. Heck, make switches to distinquish between a vocalized “burglar, burglar” and “robbery in progress, please take cover and dial 911″ is a very nice touch. Guns get you killed, is the way we see it, and rarely anyone gets killed. And yeah, we do watch violent American movies. We do know about the forked up politics around the worrld (I try to get informed at least), and we do know about how Muslim terrorist are as likely to kill is as the square root of lightnighing times plane crash.
Just hide you stash, offer professional burglars and robbers a good decoy (nice touch there is to put GPS tags inside the coins tubes for instance, or better: self destruction ink bombs, timed fuse). Violence in itself doesn’t bring safety. It just costs you amo to practice, and sleepness night over every little noise around the house.
The important thing is there are lots of very good ideas. As long as you are careful and diligent, nobody will have any idea which set of ideas you chose to implement. A buddy of mine put three 20x tubes of gold eagles in his Purple Martin bird house. Nobody messes with bird houses. And he likes the idea he can look out the window and see it is still there undisturbed. He feels it is safer there than in the house.
Cool, I think I know that guy…
The best idea, which you implement, should REALLY remain with you alone. Trusting a guy whole tells about it on the internet , even without location or ID, means you’ve told one person too many. I can post hundreds of ideas, but I’ll implement another. And it will have to be a proper secret.
The fact that we stack should not be shared at all even, but we can’t help ourselves. Oh well, some people show off their overdone sports cars.
I like the idea of a PVC pipe somewhere where it kinda makes sense for one to be there but it’s merely a hidden stack.
I could hide them from you. oops! I mean for you
I distrust government criminals as much as degenerates in our plain walk of life, so I’ve buried my stack in a number of locations on land and under water in radar scattering ‘faceted’ containers designed on ‘stealth’ technology I’d researched. It’s proven to have a great side-effect of preventing me from temptations to ‘trade’ it because digging it up would be too much trouble. Consequently, I’ve kept every single grain I’d accumulated over the years. There never has been a more secure ‘depository’ than the venerable old Bank of Mother Earth.
Hide it in plain sight. Takes some imagination. There are books out there to give you some ideas. Many commercially available products where cans are machined to hide inner contents (Juristic Park shaving cream can for example). False walls are very good as described in Rawles’ books. False floors and ceilings. Maybe the use of rare earth magnet to hold metal boxes in place. Heating and a/c ductwork. The list goes on and on.
Good luck.
@Pat
That’s just great if you can’t get there and electricity is gone! There ought to be a game show!
I have had all my silver melted and re cast into large solid slugs for my 12 gauge shotgun, that way if someone comes to try and reclaim or steal it it can be delivered to them very quickly, and with them being a large slug they are easily dug out from the body or wall before the cops come, altogether a win win situation,LOL
Outdoor locations are great except if you are in a natural disaster prone area. Coastal areas or just low lying flood plains are subject to erosion. (case in point – hurricane popped caskets up and open in Mississippi last month.). Tornadoes can destroy bird houses and large landmark type trees (if your using them to line up a potential spot such as “new world” suggests. And don’t forget the basics, winter the ground can freeze down ten feet or more. Try digging a couple of feet down in Febuary.
All in all, lots of great ideas, thanks everyone!
I’m going with multiple small stash locations around my property. True I may lose some, but I won’t lose it all.
I try to think of fire proofing each location or what would happen if the house caught fire.
I also give consideration to the idea that I may need to leave in a hurry and won’t have time for digging.
Anyone heard of hiding a stash in a vehicle? My van is sad and not worth stealing so…. lol
Come on $33!!!!!!!
There are enough spots in the average home that offsite really isn’t needed. Have a sacrificial stash to hand over in case the worst happens and hide the rest. Want to foil metal detectors? Look at all the metal objects in your house that could hold some PM’s.
I was going to tell where some good hiding places are… but I think I won’t. I don’t want to give any criminals any ideas.
I’ll just say this though:
“O U T O F S I G H T. O U T O F M I N D.”
Here’s one idea that I’ll toss out there… unscrew the top of your outdoor air conditioner unit. There is a lot of room in there, especially for the metal of kings. Plus it’s hard to open (you need the right tools), it’s impossible to cart off, and it’s surrounded by metal.
We get a lot of air conditioner thefts around here because of the copper content, at least around me they are not impossible to cart off. Just a thought.
I would like to say where I think is the perfect place to stash your metals, sadly I don’t trust the internet that well!
My father in law was the ultimate stacker, starting back when gold was in the double digits and silver was—-silver—and worth $1-2 an ounce. He also had platinum. His silver was buried in 5 PVC pipes in the back yard, burrowed under a concrete slab. The platinum was in the rafters in the garage. The gold was in a false shelf behind the medicine chest in his bathroom. His stash was there for up to 40 years. No worries on his part and he slept like a baby. He was well armed, carried at all times and had a rifle for backup. Living in Sun City from the 1970′s until the late 2000′s the chances of being robbed were slim. We use a safe deposit box at the bank as a false front box in case someone drilled it and found maybe 40 rounds of silver. We would yell and shout like it was our last dollar and make a huge stink with the bank.
The home stash idea is our best bet since we live in very a very hard rock area of the Sierras and digging is for the birds. Way to many lookie loos around our area though. Everyone has a metal detector trying to find the lost Treasure of the Sierra Madre mine in our back yard so burying was not the first choice. But stashing in our home with a false wall (1) and a very tough safe (2) seems to work. We have a first rate alarm system and armed response from the local sheriff with 24/7 video slaved to my computer. I can peek at our home any time.
A small safe with a bit of phyzz and some plated silverware offers a phony safe for someone who might want to snatch and grab. We also have serious OPSEC so no one knows what we have. The attorney has part of our asset info and they have to coordinate with a second legal counsel, a person who we find is completely trustworthy These sorts of attorneys deal with people who have possessions and estates vastly larger than our so we are confident of the trustworthiness.
The most important thing is that you need to be comfortable with your decision and spread your stash to more than one site. You can occasionally change your security protocols to make sure no one zeroes your stack. That way you can sleep at night.
@AGXIIK Those are nice method! I like the idea about putting all my PM in a metal box that is locked and then cover the whole thing with junk stuff that I don’t really need especially because I have my own private garage. I have another method of hiding my PM but I don’t I want to tell it now for security purpose so I’ll send you a message about what do you think about my method.
I own a nice metal detector and can tell anyone that plans to bury phyzzz in a plastic PVC pipe is rolling the dice. Best way to beat a metal detector is to throw out a lot of junk like pop tops and aluminum foil. If the metal detector discrimination is turned down enough so it won’t pick up pop tops and aluminum junk then it also will not pick up gold easily. So it’s a catch-22 for those detectors.
If you wanted to use a pipe make its metal so the phyzzz is surrounded by steel and any metal detector will get a junk signal versus something good. Also, either make the pipe is really long so they think its part of the house water or gas lines or you bury it straight up and down. And as always, throw out a lot of junk in the area. Put out a couple hundred small nails, aluminum foil, pop tops, pennies, tacks, maybe an old fork, few AA batteries, bury a couple metal cans.. Muck up the entire area so they will either give up and move along as no one wants to sift through junk all day.
When I found out Union Bank of California was Japanese owned ,I actually felt better about my safe desopit box,besides it’s 5 mins away.
I have looked at Chinese Banks also……
Sad but reality remains vivid lack of confidence in American Banks and getting worst daily.
“Can’t do that in Australia silverrrr! We have strict gun laws.”
Indeed. Like NY City and Chicago, where ONLY the criminals have guns but no fear of any citizens having them. God, what an amazing plan that is! Like NY and Chi, Oz probably has a sky-rocketing crime wave in progress as we speak. :-(
As to PMs, I favor the diversification approach where not all of these golden eggs are placed into the same basket. I keep 1/4 of my stash at home, in a dial safe that is bolted to the concrete floor and the concrete wall behind it. It is disguised and does not look like a safe. My son also has a safe and it has 1/4 of my stash. My parents have a safe and it has 1/4 of my stash. My local CU SDB has the final 1/4 of the stash. If Europe crashes, the UK will soon follow. That is my “tripwire”. Upon hearing that bit of news, I will go to the CU and withdraw the 1/4 of my hoard that is there. Otherwise it is a safe and well run place with excellent security and an outstanding rep for both security and customer service. For any security measure we can take there will be something that will beat it, so there is no perfect security. I would not trust ANY of the BIG banks to secure my stash or any part of it. A small local bank might be OK but I would have to know them well to have any trust in them. Ditto for an attorney. Or a financial adviser. Yes, some are very good. Many are not.
I have not buried any PMs but if I did, I would use 2″ PVC tubes about 16″ long, filled with silver rounds in round coin tubes, and with the end caps glued on with PVC cement. These would be both water and air tight. They would also be heavy enough that flotation would not be a problem during the rainy season.
Security for PMs, like anything else of value, is best used in layers. Motion sensors, lights, appropriate landscaping, a good alarm system that is monitored 24/7 and that records video off-site for at least a month, dogs, guns (if you are free to own them), video cams, etc. 1-2 of these is better than nothing but layers will make your place a lot more trouble than it is worth. Crooks are usually lazy and in a hurry. Making their life difficult is a good way to get them to move on to an easier target.
Also, do not forget to take pics of your stash… good close-up high-res pics. Save these to a CD or a DVD and keep a copy elsewhere as a backup. Record any serial numbers of your bars. If they are stolen, having those serial numbers could be of use in both identifying them and in getting them returned. I also handle all my stash, so my fingerprints should be all over everything in it. Can’t hurt and might help at some point.
Here you go my America gun slinging friends – have a laugh at this from the Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia…
“The lawful ownership and use of handguns for approved purposes has a long history of being well regulated in Australia. Penalties for the illegal ownership and use of illegal handguns are also well codified. These penalties are only a deterrent to the illegal use of illegal/legal firearms and they have no effect upon a person who is willing to disregard them and accept the consequences of that decision.
Fact: it is illegal to own, use and possess a handgun in Australia without a licence to do so and has been the case long before John Howard and his National Firearms Agreement of 1996. It is now and always has been, illegal to kill, injure, frighten or annoy another person with a handgun, whether it is registered or not. The police can arrest and place before the courts anyone who commits an offence in relation to the use of firearms and the court may caution, fine or jail any offender.
Steps you need to take to legally obtain a handgun
The sport of competitive handgun shooting exists only within a framework of police-approved clubs, which coordinate events on police-approved ranges across the nation. Gun laws are a state-based issue, so each of the scenarios that control the pistol shooting sports may vary slightly, but in essence the following may be taken as the general rule across our nation.
The Prime Minister announced an agreement between states and the Federal Government on December 6, 2002, which covered 28 resolutions tightening handgun controls for the legitimate sporting shooter. A person should attend at a club and make it known that they are interested in joining. The details of clubs can usually be located within firearm publications or by searching the internet. The person then has to undertake formalised safety training in the safe use of firearms. In some states this is done within the club framework or the course is completed in an external agency. The safety training is a mandated requirement for police to start the licence issue process. Some states state in legislation that safety training is to be undertaken, whilst others regulate that the registrar may require completion of a satisfactory course before issuing a licence.
The candidate then must complete six months probation within the club, during which time they are not allowed to purchase a handgun. Ongoing instruction about the club rules and firearm safety occurs within this time frame, after which the person may then, with club consent, apply to the registrar of firearms for a handgun licence.
Recent changes to firearm laws as a result of the COAG December 2006 agreement now restricts the new member to an initial purchase of a small calibre target pistol. The applicant must also have applied for and been granted a firearm licence, which is dependent upon a nation-wide criminal record check, looking for a history of violence, warrants and domestic violence orders. The applicant must also submit proof of successfully completing the firearms safety training course at the time of licence application.
Once the person receives a firearm licence with personal photograph attached, they can then attend at a licenced firearm dealer and select a handgun which is suitable for the competition in which they intend to take part. This firearm may be a single-shot air pistol, a single-shot .22-calibre pistol or a .22-calibre revolver or self-loading pistol.
When the details of the selected firearm are known, they are submitted back to the police on an Approval to Purchase form, which is checked by police as to the correct details of the firearm, the current owner (seller) and that the person submitting the approval request is, in fact, in possession of a current firearm licence.
The applicant has to wait 28 days for this process to take place. If the police approve the purchase, the applicant is notified in writing and they can then collect the handgun from the dealer upon producing their current photographic firearm licence and the Approval to Purchase form approved by the police.
The applicant then has 14 days to take the firearm to the nearest police station to where they live and register the firearm in their own name. (This is a SA policy and may vary in different states.) After payment of the fee, the applicant can then only use the handgun at an approved range for an approved event within the approved club. This means that the handgun cannot be used for any other purpose other than target shooting at the pistol club. Breaching this purpose of use will result in punishment as defined by the Act.
The club member must attend at least four to six club events a year to retain club membership and endorsement for a handgun category of their firearm licence. The clubs are bound to advise the registry if a member has not completed those events.
The handgun owner is under a legal requirement to store the firearm under security arrangements defined under the Act and regulations. Gun safes usually cost about $400 to $800.
If the club member wishes to purchase another handgun, then they must go through the same process of approval to purchase, club endorsement, registration and secure storage regime. If the club member wishes to sell a handgun, then it can only be sold to another licenced person (after the purchaser obtains an approval to purchase) or to a licenced firearm dealer.
Comments on the illegal handgun market
The media in Australia generally cannot differentiate between the illegal and legal use of firearms, especially handguns. The Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) reports on firearm theft within Australia released in both May 2000 and April 2007 indicate that handguns were the least type of firearm stolen. So where are the criminals obtaining their illegal handguns?
The availability of illegal handguns soared soon after the introduction of the 1996 National Firearm Agreement (NFA), especially in the eastern states of Australia. The rush to implement the NFA resulted in differing interpretations of what constitutes a handgun in different states.
Thankfully, all loopholes have now been identified to stop any leakage of firearms to the illicit market. The government and the media need to focus on the positives sides of firearm ownership and the reduction of illegal firearms on the illicit market.
Gun crime
Of course, some handguns are illegally imported into Australia every year. The Australian Customs Service (ACS) cannot hope to stop this situation. But has there been many reports of the ACS seizing large quantities of Glock self-loading pistols? Or are the media reports telling us that, in fact, the “handguns seized” are soft airguns, which are illegally imported both by individuals and ‘one-dollar shops’ from Asia? No large-scale seizure of illegal handguns has been reported by the ACS, other than soft air-pistols.
The AIC has also reported on various occasions that the licenced firearm owner is not responsible for the use of firearms in homicide. The Federal Government’s own think-tank on firearm violence has recognised what firearm owners have known for a lifetime – that their lawful activities are not involved in the rise of violence within our community.”
hide stash in 3 or4 spots,if not needed in hurry can put in wet concrete inch from surface. write hidden spot on paper then write hundreds of random words on paper and insert the hidden directions. give trusted friend or rello a blank cutout of directions.you tell friend in case of death or accident,where he can find word sheet.at least if stolen you know who did it,and theres no temptation to decipher words beforehand.
kkrazy, that’s a good one!
I wonder, does silver even deserve such a permanent hiding place? I regard it as a high speed carrier towards a future gold stash. By that time perhaps less so, but still likely less volumous. I do not foresee ever having more gold than I can comfortably carry in a suitcase with handcuff. Behond the purchasing power of just one kg! I would like my stash to be somewhat accessible and not leave a big mess when I dig it up, when I merely decide I want to swap it for gold, at a preferable gold/silver ratio, or simply when silver seems to become overpriced, and prices are likely to go in a long downtrend. I want gold then, only to swap back when the tide turns again.
I do foresee leaving a large part of my stash to my descendants, preferably 2nd generation (even 1st yet to be conceived), but not that it would be a lot of silver.
Something I have done a few times in very bad weather. What if you have a severe tornado outbreak, severe hurricane etc… They can wipe your house down to the slab. That tornado will scatter your belongings from hell to breakfast. What do you notice in these areas afterwards. The vehicles. They may be severely damaged, but they are always there. I do not have a basement or safe room to get into. One thing I have done many times is when the weather is threatening and you have maybe 70+ mph storms with embedded tornadoes, I take the safety belt in my vehicle, the part that would go around your body, and I lock with a pad lock, my stash to that (open end) of the seat belt in the back seat of my truck for a few hours until the threat is over. If I get wiped down to the slab. My pickup truck will be very close by, with my stash, intact.
Wow, a safety deposite box as a decoy, love it! Put in a coin collection of PM’s. Stick a GPS/cell hone tag in the album’s cover.
Sumkid since access to PMs that are stocked and stored should not be an issue and hard to access, unlike keeping your smaller stash of coins you are culling for silver. This is a good thing. If you put some away to secure it, the harder it is for you to get to it the harder it is for a crook to access it. Crooks have an adversion to hard work. Shovels scare them worse than garlic and crosses put the fear of God into a vampire.
Securing PMs in an old piece of electronics like a metal case for a Dish setup or old POS stereo equipment like an 8 track or cassette deck might work. If it’s hidden more or less in with other junky stuff that would be a good idea. hiding PM in an old piece of furniture is a good idea. May chairs, night stands and cabinets have false backs with air space that can be easily peeled off and used as a storing space. A false panel in a bedroom will do quite well And the provervial vault using a 6 in diameter PVC pipe with screw on ends can hold alot of phyzz. A plastic ammo case, as opposed to the metal ones, cab be buried just as easily as a PVC pipe Like I noted with my father in law, ceiling rafters and burial of phyzz worked for him for 40 years and no one ever expected that. My wife and I were the only ones who knew of this and he trusted us to keep the secret. If its hard for oyu to dig it up it will be nearly impossible for a crook They are lazy and stupid—that’s why they are criminals and don’t have a day job.
A PS to a false front SDB If you put some irrelevant papers, insurence coverage etc and a coin collection books with newer coins, worthless for anything above their actual value—no numistmatic value, these could be used as a distraction. A full coin book of nickels or dimes might cost no more than $20. If you have a couple of those easily accessed in your home this could be a good bait and deter a crook from looking closer. Hit and run is their MO. Governments have more time and resources but are far less likely to due the diligence to search your SDB for anything beyond the low value items. They want the good stuff and it would be best note to leave any paper trails to the best of the best in your stacks.
Black Swan Silver. If you can go through that arduous process of securing a fire arm then it would be a good process. Since most criminals appear to not have access to fire arms or would be very surprised at a home owner possession one, then having is a good ting.
I used 22 cal pistols for 2 decades before I graduated to larger calibers. 22 cals are lethal at close range and very effective in home self defence. The caliber of the gun is not nearly as important as the caliber of the person wielding it. The motto at Front Site, a top ranked firearms training facility is “Any gun will do if you will” I wish you the best. IMO Australia is more tolerant and respectful than most countries
@AGXIIK I don’t want to bury my PM cause I’m worried that over the years, my silver may tarnish even if I put them in PVC pipes. I think that the best method is to put my PM in PVC pipes, then use my method and your method which is to place decoys. Thanks!
Black Swan Silver: I did some checking re: your boo-hooing having a gun for protection….that Australia won’t let you have one. Well, there are 746,000 adults in Australia and 3,200,000 hand guns in PRIVATE hands. There’s another zillion in police hands. So, the picture you painted that your gun laws are too restrictive is, in a word bunk!
Of course, I maintain that the general public is either ignorant on how to protect one’s self or desirous of SOMEONE ELSE to protect them. Ergo, the criminal element out there THRIVES on this fact.
To those who posted that those of us who carry a weapon on our person are gunslingers, etc., let me say to them that I have in my business as a PMs dealer been in MULTIPLE situations where if I wasn’t proactive in my own security defense, confident in using my weapon, and being a superb marksman, I would’nt be writing this. One last thing. Those of you that conceal carry already know what I am about to say. To you other folks, here’s some advise should you, God forbid, get into a life or death situation with an armed assailiant: TEAR INTO THEM with everything you have. Make it your last stand, and more likely than not you will prevail. You see, criminals by and large will not tolerate being on the receiving end of your onslaught. What you do to them they want to do to you. It works! Good luck, some of you will need it!
What was that movie with Gene Hackman where he melted his gold and made nice guard rails for his boat? A ceramic kiln at 1800 will melt AU and AG. Just get a nice mold, like a yard monkey or flamingo, and get busy.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ceramic+molds&rlz=1C1RNCN_enUS332US346&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Sumkid don’t worry about tarnish on silver. If you bury the stash you can seal the canister and use some dessicant that you find in most electronics etc It absorbs moisture. If you seal the coins in a zip lock bag with dessicant and then in air tight tubes you will be fine. Silver does not tarnish easily and if kept dry then you should be safe My father in law had a large bag of junk bullion in its original canvas bag with no protection and it kept very nicely for nearly 40 years. No tarnish to speak of.
You can get air tight seal a meal systems. We are on a short fishing trip and just sealed 5 trout Those things work really well to remove air so spoilage is nearly non existent
Thanks! I’ll add some desiccant later cause now, my goal is to buy a lot of silver that I could and some copper pennies. Plus, I don’t want to bury my PM cause during winter, the ground gets frozen which is very very hard to dig plus there is a big layer of snow that I have to clean first. Imagine if SHTF happens during winter, I may not have the time to dig my PM so it’s the best if I keep them in my hiding spot.
Point well taken as to burying phyzz, Sumkid. Good idea about weather.
we live in a rocky area with snow, ice and frozen ground 6 months out of the year with water table issues. Digging out the tubes would be problematic in snow 5 feet deep with rock hard ground. That would prevent someone else from access it. Short of a back hoe or dynamite, which would destroy the metals, getting into the ground would be possible. Besides which I have an allergy to shovels.
If someone lives in wet, swampy land or property that is subject to flooding, that would make hiding PMs in the ground. That course would be advisable only in dry areas with moderate temperature. Even a desert area subject to intense flash flooding and rain could leave a buried stash subject to harm.